This is part two in a three-part series. Featuring Greg Smith, General Manager of Toll NXQ, this presentation discusses their approach to speed management, incident prevention, and how in vehicle cameras are contributing to better safety outcomes.
This presentation is a recorded webinar that was held by the National Road Safety Partnership Program a collaborative network supporting Australian businesses to develop a positive road safety culture.
Who is this presentation for?
This presentation is for people in the transport industry and anyone interested in work health and safety.
About the presenter
Mr Greg Smith is General Manager of Toll NQX which is the domestic forwarding business group. They are the leading provider of transport solutions for freight moving between Queensland, the Northern Territory and the rest of Australia.
Every week Toll NQX deliver 43,000 consignments through 2,000 scheduled road services.
ARRB webinar series – Toll NQX talks heavy vehicle safety
Mr Greg Smith
General Manager, Toll NQX
Angela Juhasz: Good morning or good afternoon depending on where you are. Thank you for joining us for our presentation today as we cover Toll NQX talks heavy vehicle safety. Our presenter today is Greg Smith and I'll talk a little bit more about Greg later on.
This webinar is the first of a series of webinars by the National Road Safety Partnership Program which is of course supported by Safe Work Australia. My name is Angela Juhasz and I'll be your webinar moderator today. Before I introduce Greg to you, I'll introduce Jerome Carslake who is the Manager of the NRSPP just to give you a bit of an introduction on it.
Jerome Carslake: Thank you Angela. The NRSPP has been the initiative that's been created over the last three years. It sort of came out of the National Transport Commission. Following extensive consultation we had a range of organisations which you can see up on your screen now, one of them including Toll, all stepped up and basically helped provide the framework and develop the structure of the program to move forward.
The real goal of the program is to really help drive road safety in businesses and organisations, workplaces of all sizes, but at the same time to increase productivity, efficiency and environmental measures at the same time. So, ARRB was selected over the last few months by the steering committee to manage the program and to take it forward, and probably one of the key things to make a point here, is all the sort of program members are part of it mainly because they recognise that road safety shouldn't be a competitive advantage, but rather a shared advantage because if some issue happens in their sector, the whole industry is vilified in the view of the public. So, thank you very much.
Angela Juhasz: Too right Jerome. Thank you for that introduction. Now without any further comment from me, the man of the moment that everyone's keen to hear from is of course Greg Smith who is the General Manager over at Toll NQX. Greg has over 30 years’ experience in the transport industry, starting out as a truck driver and now managing Toll NQX. Quite the background you have there, Greg. Greg, could you tell us a little bit more about your journey through the transport sector?
Greg Smith: Certainly Angela and thank you for that. I was originally from a small country Victorian town, and as such you find yourself driving trucks and heavy vehicles at a young age on farms and things like that. So I started – I entered the industry in that area. Then it was a natural progression into driving and I had a fair bit of experience on road and my interest was always in trying to make things better, so I took on management roles and I've had the good fortune to end up within Toll NQX and in the role of General Manager.
Angela Juhasz: Such an inspirational story for all our young professionals starting out in the industry, and I think we're keen to learn more about Toll and your involvement with things. So, I'll hand back over to you.
Greg Smith: Sure, thank you. Toll NQX is one of the business units inside Toll. We're a national business to business provider, so essentially at the heavy end of the road transport business. We've got three core lines of business consolidated, so that's a part road service, a straight line and project services and our rail business. We have a network of 32 branches, around 1,900 staff and 2,000 dedicated road services per week.
Our road fleet - our line haul fleet will travel more than 100 million kilometres on the road each year and that's a big part of the reason why we've had a real safety focus inside our depots, but that's not enough Page 2 of 8
for someone who spends so much time on the road. We needed to have a real on-road focus and that's the path we've gone down.
Angela Juhasz: Wow, a million kilometres. Goodness me.
Greg Smith: We've taken a bit of an industry leadership role in road safety. We're accredited of course with the NHVR, as you can see on the screen for mass management, maintenance management, basic fatigue and advanced fatigue. We're also members of Trucksafe which is essentially a quality management system specifically designed for the transport industry and our National Line Haul Manager John King was recently awarded the Industry Excellence Award from the QTA for helping make Australia's road freight industry safer. John's been an advocate for on-road safety for all of the 15 years that I've been inside the business and he's been a real driving force inside our business for improvement.
The business of NQX – you can see on your screen the sort of customers we have. So they're at the higher end or the larger end of industry. They've got a very clear understanding of their responsibilities under chain of responsibility, but also the fact that we represent them on road and they're very interested in what we're doing on road and how that reflects back on them. So, our aim is to reach best practice in the industry and that's a reflection for our customers on the way they're engaging with the community.
Firstly, we'll talk about speed management and to give you a little bit of a context on that, I thought what we would do is just give you an example of the sort of distances our drivers are travelling. The average Australian travels around 14,000 kilometres per year. The average Toll NQX line haul driver is up around 220,000 kilometres per year. So their exposure to the hazards of the road is far greater than the average driver, and that's very much worth keeping in mind as we go through this process. The exposure that they have is so great, but the rules they work to are of course exactly the same as anybody else.
A little bit of a challenge for you if you like. No need for an answer of course, but if you think about the drive to work this morning, the way we measure our speed events is any speed event that exceeds four seconds. So would you have travelled at the speed limit on your way to work this morning for over four seconds? It's an interesting thought. That's the way we measure our drivers.
The document you see in front of you, that's the report that I get on a monthly basis. That essentially tells me how many events we have, for what period of time and at what speed, and what you'll notice on there is that we've achieved our goal where we have no speed events over 110 kilometres an hour in the 10 to 10 plus section. So, our overall goal is no speed events at all, but for the size of the fleet we have, we are really proud of this outcome and of this position, and it's a constant work in progress.
One of the interesting things with this is that what we see is when new drivers join us, we typically see a spike in speed events and when we sit with them and spend some time with them and explain to them further what it is that we want, which is very much explained at the original interview and the employment process, when we work with them, we almost always get them to understand what we're looking for and you'll see their speed events drop away. So we not only have it like this – this is a summary that I see – we actually have it by driver as well.
Angela Juhasz: Well those results are certainly something to be proud of Greg.
Greg Smith: Thank you. Now I've covered most of this I think, but essentially you can see what's on the screen. So over 70% of the events were between 104 and 106 and for under 10 seconds. The speed, it's over 10 seconds. So that's reached zero. So we're very, very happy with that but managing speed has been a journey and we are proud of the point we've reached, especially considering these drivers are travelling 18,000 kilometres per month. It's a big ask, but the drivers are doing a wonderful job.
Incident prevention – so the next part of our presentation is around one of the initiatives we've been working on for a number of years now which is in-vehicle cameras. We began working with the in-vehicle cameras or trying to source cameras for…about five years ago and it took us two years to be able to find cameras that actually did what it was we wanted, but also what the vendors were saying they could do. So we've now got over 140 Toll NQX prime movers that are fitted with cameras. The cameras constantly record in a loop and what that means is it's a constant recording loop and they record and dump after a period of time. So there's no long-term recording that's kept.
The recording that is kept is activated by G-force events, so harsh braking, swerving. It can even be a pot hole or driver activated. The recording provides vision and audio of both the road ahead and in-cab. The camera footage includes eight seconds prior and four seconds after activation. The system is monitored Page 3 of 8
by a third party provider who reviews all events and provides email assessment of their safety observations.
The good thing with the cameras, the drivers have accepted those quite well and a big part of that is the fact that they can actually activate the cameras for us. So, if the driver sees an event that's happening on the road and is concerned or thinks "Gees, we should know what's happening there," he can actually activate that for us and he can come and have a talk to his Supervisor on his return to depot.
With the cameras, all drivers and managers participating in the process work with a 'code of conduct'. This is designed to ensure proper custody and approved distribution of film whilst maintaining a strict recognition of driver privacy. Without that there I'm sure we would have had a much more difficult time in introducing the technology. The driver acceptance has been very, very high. Most of our drivers accept the camera technology and are very comfortable with it because they see both sides. We've had a number of times where the driver has been protected by the vision the camera has been able to provide, and that's been fantastic.
Some of the drivers are not comfortable. I guess it's one of those things where not everything suits everybody, but it's a part of what we do and it's a part of working with us. Most of our drivers are actually strong advocates of the cameras because they do understand the benefits that they bring.
Angela Juhasz: Absolutely. It certainly protects them at the end of the day. So, would you mind taking a few questions Greg?
Greg Smith: Yes, happy to do that.
Angela Juhasz: All right. We'll start with how are the trucks speeding if there are speed limiters?
Greg Smith: Yes, an interesting question. We get that one quite a bit. Most of our speed events are actually down hills. The speed limiter, it limits the speed of the vehicle under power, but has no impact on a speed coming down a hill and there's also a thing where once it gets to speed, it can actually run a little bit faster than what the speed limit is. That's unusual. It's more down a hill.
Angela Juhasz: Righto.
Jerome Carslake: Caroline from BRAKE asks "If John was speeding, at what point do you pull up drivers, honest, and what measures do you have in place for addressing the speeding issue?"
Greg Smith: We won't until the vehicle exceeds over 104 kilometres an hour and even then it's over a couple of seconds. So the event must be over 104 and over four seconds. That's the point where we'll actually have a conversation with the driver and what it's all about is we're really trying to get the drivers to understand what we're trying to achieve and to adopt that themselves. So, it's a counselling session, not necessarily just a disciplinary session.
Angela Juhasz: Fair enough, okay. Question here from Christopher. Christopher's from LinFox and he asks, "Greg, can you tell us about the issues you experienced in installing DriveCam into your fleet? Any advice for other operators?"
Greg Smith: Okay. We didn't really get too much opposition to the cameras. We put them into our line haul fleet up in North Queensland and it's fair to say there are a fair number of events up there. We explained the opportunity for the operator to trigger the camera, and the drivers were fairly keen on that part of it. So there was a little bit of trepidation from some of them. There was the concept of "Gees, big brother is watching. They're going to see everything I'm doing." When we explained, that "No, that's not right. There's no kept footage other than the eight seconds before and four seconds after an event," that gave them a real level of comfort.
The code of conduct was key also, so that there's an understanding of how the information would be dealt with from a privacy perspective and that opportunity for the operator to record. So, we didn't get a lot of pushback. We put it into our line haul fleets in the north first and then rolled it down through the rest of the country. I think consultation was the big piece. Explaining to the drivers what the benefits were to them, as well as to the business, brought them on board. So the key piece of advice I would give would be to clearly explain to the drivers what it is you're doing and what it is you're trying to achieve and that consultations piece.
Jerome Carslake: Just taking that a little bit further, Gary of Wesfarmers Kleenheat asks, "How long did the consultative process take you?" Page 4 of 8
Greg Smith: We probably worked through a period of around three or four months. We'd been looking for two years prior 'til we actually found some that were going to work and we put a few pilot cameras in. So the drivers were a part of that pilot process. So they were seeing what was happening and they were aware on the way through. So I guess that would have been over a reasonably long period – three or four months – and that's to do as much as anything else with the pilot and then the actual implementation. So we had that opportunity to consult over a fair period of time and we just made sure the drivers were involved.
Angela Juhasz: And how do drivers react when they see their own footage, their own accident footage?
Greg Smith: Well it's mixed. One of the things that's really interesting is more often than not the driver's memory of the event is quite different to what the footage says and I'm no psychologist, but what we think that is, is that the brain is focused on the issue and driving the vehicle, not on remembering exactly what happened. So the drivers can get quite a surprise when they actually see what's happened as opposed to what they thought happened. So it can be quite different.
On the other side of things, just the other week we had a piece of footage where one of our drivers has hit a pothole and it's triggered the camera. He's realised it would and so as it's triggered he's gone "Woops" and he actually said "That will trigger it," and he's given the camera a big smile and wave. So we've showed him that piece and he got quite a laugh out of it.
Angela Juhasz: There are some good news stories then.
Greg Smith: Well, there's actually a lot of good news stories and the big ones with the good news stories is where there have been on-road incidents and the drivers can be exonerated very, very quickly. We had an event quite recently where one of our drivers was involved in an incident and the Police understood we had the cameras in there, asked for the footage. We had the camera – we went through our normal privacy process, but the Police had the footage within about 25 minutes to 30 minutes and the driver was cleared that quickly, and that's great for the driver. There's no period of uncertainty.
Angela Juhasz: Absolutely.
Greg Smith: He knows he'd done everything he could do and he was okay, so there's a lot of good news stories in the cameras.
Angela Juhasz: Wow, fantastic. All right Greg, I'll let you move to the next stage of the presentation.
Greg Smith: Okay. The next piece is some actual camera footage. So, we've got the consent from the drivers for all of these and some of these are G-force activated, but some are actually driver-activated as well. So, what we'll do is as each one comes through I'll just give you a little bit of a running commentary, but I'll leave the video speak for itself. So, I'll say a few words before and we might run through each of them twice.
Angela Juhasz: Good plan.
Greg Smith: Okay. So there's what the camera footage looks like when we see it. So the image on the left is looking inside the vehicle. The one on the right is looking down the road. So that's fairly clear. In each example I'll let you know where to look because what you find is you get distracted - you will look at one screen or the other. So I'll give you a bit of a heads up.
On this one we had a driver who was looking to get something out of the fridge and this has occurred on the Bruce Highway north of Brisbane. It's G-force activated. Essentially he's taken his eyes off the road for only a couple of seconds. That was enough for him to lose control. So, if you look mainly to the left of the screen you'll see what's happening with the driver. Near the end of the video if you look to the right you'll see an oncoming vehicle and you can only imagine how frightening it would have been for that person.
So, that's essentially – classified as a rollover for us. The vehicle didn't go over on its side, but it certainly was over on an angle. It's off road. That pretty much destroyed the prime mover and the trailers. Fortunately the driver was fine. He had his seatbelt on which you can see. Our seatbelts are actually high visibility seatbelts, so you can see that's on, plus the arms were down on the driver's seat. So, the good news is there were no injuries out of all of that. The bad news is it was very, very expensive.
So, with this – would you like to look at that again? Page 5 of 8
Angela Juhasz: Yeah, absolutely. Let's do that and look, I have seen these before, but I tell you what, they scare me every time. So…
Greg Smith: They are an incredibly effective training tool and it's so personal for our drivers because it's our drivers who are in there…
Angela Juhasz: I do squirm in my seat every time.
Greg Smith: This one here. This shows how quickly things happen and why it's so critical that drivers are fresh and focused and not distracted at all. This is again on the Bruce Highway. The camera was activated by our driver swerving. We did share this with the Department of Transport and Main Roads to assist with their understanding, but also just as a bit of further information for them. The driver coming towards us, really don't know what has happened or what was going on inside that truck - we can only assume, but fortunately our driver was well aware and able to react. So look mainly at the right screen. So our driver, there's not a lot happening, but if you look at the right screen you'll see what's happening.
Angela Juhasz: All right, let's take a look.
Greg Smith: We might just run that one through once more. If you look at the right screen again, but if you look at the bottom right hand corner you'll notice the speed is there. Now, because it's GPS speed, it's a little bit slower than the real world, so our driver has fortunately seen what's coming, moved off to the left and actually braked quite sharply to keep out of the way, but this is a frightening event.
And that's how quickly it happens.
Angela Juhasz: Oh gosh.
Greg Smith: The whole thing was 12 seconds of footage, only, and I guess the event itself is probably three or four seconds of that. That's how quickly it happens. Okay, we'll move to the next one.
This one is a motorist and he's clearly in a hurry. This is between two of our trucks on the Bruce Highway again. Driver-activated. Again, our drivers both are focused on what's going on and both of them actually brake and move to the side to allow the driver to get through. So I'll let this one go. So keep an eye on the right screen again.
Angela Juhasz: Do you know what amazed me about that? That driver's face doesn't even change. It's like he's seen this before. He's used to other drivers and road users making these kinds of silly decisions.
Greg Smith: And that's a big part of why the drivers have accepted the cameras so well, is they are seeing this every day. If there's anybody out there who has a fleet of their vehicles on the road doesn't think this is happening to their people, then honestly they're just mistaken. Our drivers are very cool and very calm and this is what they're seeing on a regular basis. We might just run that one quickly again, and what you'll notice is both of our trucks have to move over and the one that we watch on the camera actually slows down markedly again…
And so our driver just was back on the road and just continues on.
Angela Juhasz: Business as usual?
Greg Smith: Yeah.
Angela Juhasz: Wow.
Greg Smith: It wouldn't be too extreme to suggest that's a near-death moment.
Angela Juhasz: Oh gosh.
Greg Smith: And unfortunately it is just business as usual. This one is on the Flinders Highway, so west of Townsville. So this is one of our road trains heading out west. This is again activated by the driver and our driver has reduced speed, moved to the left, but look mainly again at the right hand screen.
Angela Juhasz: All right, let's take a look. Page 6 of 8
Greg Smith: So you can see our driver reach up and activate the camera. Now he's seen that car fortunately coming in his mirrors, so he's not just aware of what's in front of him. He's actually doing the right thing. He's keeping an eye on his trailer set, looking behind him. He's seen that coming behind him and you can see the truck coming towards him, the other road train flash his lights. So, he's actually seen what's going on also. So I just want to run that one through again.
Angela Juhasz: Absolutely.
Greg Smith: And I'm sure that's not lost. Honestly that was across double lines.
Jerome Carslake: It really illustrates just how professional – there's so much more going on than just what a lot of people think there is to driving a truck.
Greg Smith: Absolutely.
Jerome Carslake: There is so much more to it.
Greg Smith: Yeah. Well that fellow there with the road train set, so he'll be keeping an eye on the trailers through the mirrors just to keep an eye on everything that's going on and that's what they need to do. They cannot be distracted because again, you can see through these pieces of footage. It's just a couple of seconds. That's how quickly. You cannot be distracted when you're driving these vehicles.
This one here is in Mackay. So, it's in town and a car's just pulled out in front of one of our trucks and done a U-turn. We have no idea what he was thinking. Once the crash had happened, the car stopped, but then just took off. We actually gave the Police this footage and they're trying to see what they can do from that.
Angela Juhasz: Was the driver hurt? What was he thinking?
Greg Smith: No, it hit the very back corner of the car. So there wasn't a lot of damage to the car. There was a small mark on our truck, but the really good thing there is, so our driver comes back in, reports to his Supervisor and says, "Listen, I've just had a crash. I don't know what's gone on. The car's continued on, but there's the mark on the truck." So there's no uncertainty. It's not a matter of, "Yeah, really what did you do?" We actually know exactly what the driver has done. We know what's gone on and our driver has done everything he could do. It's a 50 kilometre zone, he's travelling at 50 kilometres, he's hit the brakes. There's nothing he could have done differently to what he did.
Angela Juhasz: Let's have a look at that one again.
Gosh, I've done some silly things in my time Greg, but doing a U-turn in front of a truck is not one of them.
Greg Smith: Difficult to imagine he couldn't have seen it coming. They are bright green and they really do stand out.
Angela Juhasz: They certainly do. Gosh.
Greg Smith: Okay. Just some of our learnings and insights. Definitely our incident rate has decreased. The number of on-road incidents that our vehicles have is falling and that's been a very, very positive result from this. If we do have an incident we understand what's gone on very, very quickly. So, it makes the investigation so much easier and it provides certainty to what the root cause is.
There's a group initiative where we're working in partnership with the Monash University. It's to formally research driver behaviours with a view to working with equipment suppliers to optimise cabin layouts and that's all around what we've found about distractions. What we don't want is drivers having to look around cabs to find a radio, to find a station on the radio or to change a CD. We want to make sure that everything is in the driver's line of sight and easy to get to. Steering wheel controls – absolutely critical. Drink holders – need to be in front of the driver so he doesn't have to reach into a refrigerator. He can actually, before he starts off, get his drink out of his refrigerator, put that in his drink holder and then he's got that for his next driving spell. So, we're doing a lot of work on that. Page 7 of 8
The sort of improvements we've seen – it's an industry issue where drivers don't like wearing seatbelts. There's a comfort perception.
Angela Juhasz: Factor.
Greg Smith: Yeah, that's out there. With what we see, we're able to talk to our drivers about wearing their seat belts, following too close, cornering too fast, using hand-held devices. It's not just motorists, it's a community issue where people don't seem to be able to leave their phones alone and eating and drinking while driving. So, we're seeing all of those things and we're able to just talk to our drivers and just counsel them and try and find better ways to do what we need them to do, and explain to them it's all making sure that they're not distracted so that they can actually respond to what's happening in their immediate environment.
Jerome Carslake: Seeing the footage, is that what really helps in changing their attitude?
Greg Smith: Yes, it does, absolutely, and seeing the footage of their own workmates. If this is just stock footage from somewhere else, it's a bit like the ads on television. They can have an impact, but it's not personal. This is quite personal because our drivers know who it was that was involved and they can talk to him and say, "Listen I saw that footage. What actually happened there?" and so it's much more personal and we find that makes a real difference -
Angela Juhasz: Absolutely.
Greg Smith: - sharing our learnings with our team. What we do is we've got a fairly broad spread of drivers located all across the country, so it's not always easy to get to them. So what we do is we have an update program where we just send these sorts of very quick but brief notes out, just letting them know, "Listen, this is what we're seeing." It's just sharing some of the learnings with them. This one here was the Christmas one, just basically saying, "It's Christmas coming. Make sure whether you're working or whether you're just taking your family somewhere, make sure you plan your route. Make sure that you've got rest breaks in there and be aware that there's a lot more traffic on the road and a lot more incidents can happen."
Angela Juhasz: Absolutely.
Greg Smith: I was asked to provide a couple of tips of what we would see from the information that we've got, so just some tips for general motorists. Our top tips would be, and these are supported by the videos I think, we've just seen, "Only overtake when you are absolutely positive that it is safe to do so. Following this tip will save lives." I think it's much better and I think we'd all agree we'd rather get there five or 10 minutes late than not at all.
Angela Juhasz: Absolutely.
Greg Smith: Tip two – "The truck driver will often deliberately try and maintain some space between the truck and the vehicle in front." He needs that little bit of extra space just for the slowing down and just try and keep the flow of traffic moving, so just be mindful of that before cutting in and forcing them to emergency brake, and tip three – "Hold back from heavy vehicles while they are turning – they do need space." That's an interesting one. It's been around for an awful lot of years and I think it's – it's even on the license testing now these days I believe, and still, we have a number of issues where people try and sneak up the inside. So, that would be my top tips.
Angela Juhasz: Well many trucks do actually have that signage on the back of them, so -
Greg Smith: They should all have it. It's very clear.
Angela Juhasz: Why people ignore the message I don't know. All right, and it looks like we might take a few more questions. Is that okay Greg?
Greg Smith: Absolutely. That'd be great.
Angela Juhasz: Fantastic, all right. We'll start with one from – Anthony from ARB is asking "Is Toll saving historical data for the purpose of identifying high-risk locations, trends and common driver behaviours in order to make their further improvements in safety?"
Greg Smith: Yeah. We collate the information that we get and we do look for any particular areas of road that we can pass onto the Department of Main Roads or whichever state that that's in. So we do collate Page 8 of 8
the information. We do look for trends, whether they be trends between vehicles, whether they be trends of locations or even drivers, so yes.
Jerome Carslake: What percentage of incidences is the fault of the other sort of vehicles would you say?
Greg Smith: Jerome, it's hard to put a firm figure to, but in almost every occasion we find that our drivers have done the right thing. So it's very small amount where our drivers have actually done something wrong. Pleasing.
Angela Juhasz: Tom from the US Federal Highway Administration is asking, "Has there been benefits realised with the insurance rates?" So, liability appears quite easy to determine in these cases shared.
Greg Smith: Yeah, not for us, as Toll, because of the way I guess that we would insure, but I am familiar with a contractor who has had a better insurance rate provided to him by his insurer, and where we got these cameras from, they were being used in New Zealand quite successfully and in New Zealand the insurers picked up the cameras and started requesting that their customers fitted them. So, not for us necessarily, but yes, anecdotally I can say that that's my understanding.
Jerome Carslake: Brenton of Demurrage Pty Ltd would like to know, "What is the cost for these camera units per vehicle?"
Greg Smith: Jerome, I don't have that on me, but it is actually on the NRSPP website. I think it's around about $1,000 per camera and about a $90 per month fee which might sound like a lot, but it's not in the context of the value of the vehicle and the value and the cost of an incident relating to the vehicle, but that's actually on the website more specifically.
Angela Juhasz: Absolutely. Look, I think it's a small price to pay if anything for the gain, and we will have some contact details up in a few slides' time, so if anyone does want to ask more questions regarding that, they can possibly follow up?
Greg Smith: Absolutely. That would be fine.
Angela Juhasz: Great. One more question here. David's asking, "Does the introduction of cameras mean that Toll has a recruitment selection bias and therefore hires better drivers?"
Greg Smith: I'd like to think so. I'd really like to think so, but no, I don't think the cameras do that for us so much. We certainly make it clear before anybody joins us about our speed limiting and our speed monitoring, and our cameras that we run. So, if drivers have any issues there's a real opportunity for them then to decide whether they want to join us or not. So no, I wouldn't suggest we've got any better recruitment process due to the cameras, but I think we end up with a better driver and what I've based that on is when we get drivers come to us, they almost all start out having speed incidents and by working with them and providing them the information, we find that they drop off our speed reports very quickly. Typically it's a two to three month process, so I would suggest we end up with a better driver. We don't necessarily start with a better driver.
Angela Juhasz: Fantastic. We have some contact details up on the screen there if you have any further questions that come to mind or the Toll Group website is there also for further information. Greg, thank you so much for your time in joining us here in the webinar studio today and what an amazing story. Quite the inspiration you are to all young professionals starting out in the industry, so thank you for sharing your story and that of Toll.
Greg Smith: Okay. Well thank you very much for that and I appreciate the kind words. Thank you.
Jerome Carslake: Thank you Greg.
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